torque converter slip actual vs desired
Dodane 10 maja 2023The second thing to look for is a lot of slippage between Desired and Actual readings for the TCC in Forscan. Think of it as two fans facing eachother inside an enclosure. What to Do to Fix Your Contaminated Transmission Fluid. The stock converter wouldn't with a big tune unless I was cruising at light throttle. (WordPress and the WordPress logos are registered trademarks of the WordPress Foundation in the United States and other countries. The knock sensor wire harness connector was loose. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Introduced for the 1950 model year, Studebakers Automatic Drive was developed in partnership with Borg-Warner and was more broadly known as the DG series, after the Borg-Warner Detroit Gear Division that did much of the development work. How ever this did happen right after I did the six 0 to 60 mph relearn runs. (PayPal.com, PayPal, and all logos related to the PayPal services are either trademarks or registered trademarks of PayPal, Inc. or its licensors. Tuning. Come join the discussion about diesel performance, modifications, EGR deletes, troubleshooting, lift kits, tires, wheels, maintenance, and more! Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. All other trademarks and/or service marks are the property of their respective owners. California residents also have the Right to Opt-Out of the sale of their personal information see the Do Not Sell My Personal Information page. I had unlimited tow loaded and he thought maybe it wasn't playing nice with my trans. I cant imagine the hours of work which you must have put into understanding these various transmissions, to say nothing of writing up a description that a simpleton like me could (mostly) understand. Do you want them slipping when driving? .. makes you appreciate the thought and consideration that goes into EFILive if only we could clone the boys (and girls) of EFILive, imagine a Delphi Ross and Bosch Ross, By WS600 in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol), By Bradazz in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), By joecar in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87), http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.012-T43-Tables, If this is your first visit, be sure to When that connection is fully engaged, the fluid clutchs torus members are effectively locked together they must turn together at engine speed and transmit no torque. Vehicle weight is another major factor that should be considered when selecting a converter. Reach out to your local AAMCO transmission center when youre ready for your efficient, smooth and worry-free ride. Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:33 am, Post 7.3L Power Stroke - Aftermarket & Performance. If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordFlex.net! I always thought it wasn't supposed to go over 10. The usual strategy is to disengage the clutch at idle (or just off idle) and during acceleration and then then engage the clutch for cruising. This creates the greatest speed difference between the turbine and the impeller and therefore the maximum torque multiplication. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. by Silver Flex SEL. That could be within the margin of error for the sensor. To serve up a little enlightenment, let's take a spin through the torque-converter world and make some sense out of all the superstition. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. In Drive, the direct clutch is engaged and both bands are released, causing the input sun gear, the low sun gear (orange), the planet carrier and output shaft (light green) to turn at input shaft speed. Therefore, a lockup clutch needs to be accompanied by some mechanism to selectively engage or disengage the clutch. If it does go let us know. In the diagram above, the yellow arrow again illustrates the flow of power, this time in third (top) gear. The cookieconsent_status cookie recorded whether or not you consented to analytics tracking and told the website to hide the notification banner; this cookie normally expires after about one year. 2011 Flex Limited AWD EcoBoost - Mediterranean Blue Metallic/Silver Roof. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Since the 1940s, automakers have come up with a variety of strategies for reducing or eliminating that slip, including series parallel split torque transmissions and different types of converter lockup clutches. In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. Think of it this way, a well built converter, 10" may slip 4-5%, if yours slips 6-7% higher, you are baking the fluid, cooking the band, and compromising the clutches, and giving up mph and ET. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. This slowly turns the blades of the driven fan in the same direction. However, Wilson gearboxes were quite bulky and complex because the nature of their operation required a separate set of epicyclic gears for each ratio, including reverse. (Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. Filling the cylinder with pressurized oil would lock the pressure plate to the clutch plate itself, forcing the clutch and input shaft to rotate with the torus cover at engine speed. The original Packard Ultramatic had a four-element torque converter with a single stator (light blue) interposed between the first- and second-stage turbines, providing a stall ratio of 2.4:1 at 1,600 rpm. All site content Copyright 2007-var year=new Date(); year=year.getYear(); if (year<1900) year+=1900; document.write(year); FordFlex.net FordFlex.net is in no way affiliated with Ford Motor Company. Not all the listed cookies and/or data items are necessarily set in all instances, and there may sometimes be others not listed above, particularly if you are logged into a Google account. For more information, please see our (Google, DoubleClick, YouTube, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. When the two problems are combined, it could mean your torque converter is failing. Well, I thought I did explain that in my reply post. Packard achieved that goal by treating the engagement of the lockup clutch like an automatic gear change. To learn more about what information the Vimeo platform collects and how that information may be used, see the Vimeo Privacy Policy. So far the bogging down hasn't happened since last week. Once the vehicle is moving at a constant speed, the speed difference between the impeller and turbine diminishes, eventually reaching a minimum point known as coupling stage. Accessing the login page sets the wordpress_test_cookie, a session cookie that tests whether the user's browser (or other user agent) will allow the cookies needed to log in to the administrative dashboard; this cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). A multi-disc clutch can lock that carrier to the front sun gear, which is also attached to the rear brake drum (dark red). With a plate clutch, that effect is often quite pronounced, especially in a reduction gear, because of the mechanical connection between the engine flywheel and the transmission input shaft; neither can overrun the other. I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7c0ed4b2fd769016 (author diagram). Performance & security by Cloudflare. The wahFontColor and wahBgColor cookies, which are set if you alter the site's color scheme, normally expire after about 14 days, but you can remove them immediately by clicking the "Restore Defaults" button on the sidebar. The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. The _gat cookie, which may appear as _gat_gtag_UA_6113964_2, was sometimes set along with the _ga and _gid cookies to control how frequently requests were sent to the Google Analytics servers; this cookie typically persisted for only a few minutes at a time. Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics I was running the KEM 250 and 310 tunes. For one, the engine would stall every time the vehicle came to a halt with the lockup clutch engaged unless the driver shifted to neutral each time. This viscous connection is transmission fluid. Fluid clutches also dont allow much engine braking. 3. and 5. There are a number of posts referencing this issue, look for the wires coming out from under the intake manifold behind the elbow that contains the coolant thermostat. Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? In drive at 0 speed TCD should read 1020 rpm and TCA should be Engine RPM - would it work,yet throw out aod default codes. Big cars weighing over 3,300 pounds generally need a converter with more torque multiplication. Shifting to third gear was accomplished by engaging the torque converter lockup clutch. I found the cause of the P0325 and P0330 error codes. However, that clutch was used in a distinctly different way than was Packards. A Simpson gearset (which Ill be discussing in great detail in the next few days) provides the same number of ratios from only two gearsets, and a single Ravigneaux gearset can give you four forward speeds and reverse if you have enough clutches. The vehicle suffered a torque converter failure at around 140k miles. Your ring and pinion (gear size) Your circumference or roll out of the rear tires. Generally, by the time you reach the 60-foot mark on the dragstrip, torque multiplication is effectively eliminated and the turbine and impeller speeds are close to achieving what converter manufacturers call coupling speed. During a shudder the desired will stay close to 0rpm but the act pid will go up and down in rpm. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Performance & security by Cloudflare. This and the GM automatic history are probably the most definitive descriptions of these technologies on the Internet, excepting pure design and engineering treatises. Some iterations of the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DG started in first gear, but early transmissions started in second unless the driver manually selected Low. We were wrong. Your car's automatic transmission has a torque converter. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Happens roughly 1-3 times in 30 mile drive at speeds of up to 60mph, and much more frequent at highway speeds (70+). copyright 2023 AAMCO transmissions inc. (author diagram). The only problem - there's a boat-load of information and I only know how to interpret a fraction of it. Ate Up With Motor, its logo, and other associated icons and graphics are trademarks and/or service marks of Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. The result will be every car will have efficient, smooth, and comfortable rides. When you experience fluid leaks, you aren't retaining the amount of transmission fluid; the torque converter needs to transfer the power from the engine to the transmission. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. Off.).) The torque converter is so essential to the global car market theres a global torque converter market. Most Torque Converters today also use a friction clutch to lock up the converter at higher speeds to create more fuel efficiency and less slip. The lockup clutch control valve, not pictured, allows pressurized oil to enter the clutch cylinder through a hollow passage within the input shaft, pushing the pressure plate (colored red, like the torus cover and impeller it rotates with) into the engaged position. If you use the buttons to make a payment or donation, the PayPal services will set additional cookies (not listed here) to manage your PayPal login and transaction data (and potentially also for various other purposes, e.g., user analytics and/or advertising). It's not more specific because stall speed is highly dependent upon engine torque. You can't be sure the slipping or shuddering has anything to do with your torque converter until you check your fluid levels. It's when you have a damaged torque converter seal that fluid leaks out and causes the overheating and damage. The PYPF cookie normally expires in approximately four weeks, the 01A1 cookie in approximately one year. Theglobal torque converter marketcontinues to grow and expand at a CAGR of 4.54%, which is projected until 2021. Most street torque. The confusion stems from the symptoms of a failing transmission, and a failing torque converter is very similar and linked. If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. Keep reading to find out these common torque converter problems and how to fix them. To learn more about what information the YouTube platform and other Google services may collect through and/or in connection with embedded video players and how Google may use that information, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page and the Google Privacy Policy. They normally expire in just under one year, but you can delete the cookies in your browser (or other user agent) at any time. If the solenoid is not regulating the fluid flow properly, it could cause variability in the torque converter clutch performance as well. Some electrical tape and some plastic wire loom may solve your issue entirely. Akamai is a registered trademark or service mark of Akamai Technologies, Inc. in the United States (Reg. Ate Up With Motor and its embedded content providers may use cookies and/or similar technologies and collect personal information about site visitors as described in the Privacy Policy and Cookie Notice. Ultramatics lockup clutch was a hydraulically operated wet clutch located within the torque converter housing, between the engine flywheel and the converter turbine. Desired is what the PCM is commanding and Actual is how much it is actually slipping measured in RPM. Remember, you don't experience either symptom unless you have the wrong amount of fluid or the wrong fluid in the transmission. Its free and only takes a minute, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. The TCC solenoid regulates the fluid pressure to the clutch. The slipping occurs while you're driving or changing gears, and it usually comes with some odd noises too. Well done and thank you; this must have been an enormous amount of work. The fluid did not look dirty. Cookies whose names begin with "optimizely" are associated with the Optimizely digital experience platform (which is subject to the Optimizely Privacy Policy; the "Privacy" section of the Optimizely Trust Center provides additional information about Optimizely privacy practices, including a link to the Data Processing Agreement that applies to personal data the Optimizely services process on customers' behalf that may be subject to certain regional privacy and/or data protection laws, while their "Cookies and localStorage in the Optimizely snippet" help page provides additional technical information about the cookies and/or similar technologies used by that platform). The mount on the transmission side (under the battery) was severely damaged, the rubber legs inside the bushing were torn through and was allowing a lot of engine movement. The transmission fluid is an important part of the torque converter in that it is used to provide the fluid coupling and smooth starts and without stalling the engine when the vehicle is stopped in gear. Stator The stator is called the middleman. Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:22 am, You need to be a member in order to post a reply, Not a member? The impellers spun by the engine's crankshaft. A reverse band surrounds a brake drum connected to the front carrier, which is also integral with the rear annulus (orange). There is more demand in today's market for increased comfort and safety in cars. One or more wp-saving-post cookies may be set while creating and/or editing posts or pages, to help manage version control and the autosave feature; these cookies normally expire after about 24 hours. He wondered if something internal may be damaged and the tow tune showed it up not allowing the torque converter to unlock soon enough which caused the bog down issue. This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! Also, as we explained in the sidebar of our article on GMs other early automatic transmissions, torque converters utilize the speed difference between the driving and driven torus members to multiply engine torque. There will typically be several such cookies, each beginning with "gdpr" (e.g., gdpr[allowed_cookies], gdpr&5Bprivacy_bar&5D, and gdpr[consent_types]). I would be surprised if this is your issue at 81,000 miles. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. Many of the other listed cookies are associated with the Google Analytics service, the Google AdSense advertising service, and/or other Google advertising and measurement products, which are subject to the Google Privacy Policy; see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site, and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of the Google Business Data Responsibility site (which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products) for more information. but the question is when i put my buddys obd code finder on it. As long as this mechanical lockup remains fully engaged, there is no slip, which improves fuel economy (typically by around 4% at cruising speeds) and provides throttle response and engine braking comparable to a vehicle with a manual gearbox. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. With the advent of overdrive automatic transmissions like the TH200-4R, the TH700-R4/4L60E, the massive 4L80E, the Ford AOD, and all the rest, the new-car companies were striving for improved fuel economy using overdrive. The wp-donottrack_feed cookie, which controls a blog feed, was set by accessing the dashboard menu for the WP DoNotTrack plugin (which we do not currently use on this website); this cookie normally expires in about one year. I think you should check the fluid level first and foremost. The torque converter, with its multiple elements, is being manufactured with an eye towards the future. In this schematic of a basic three-element torque converter with lockup clutch, the torus cover, lockup clutch pressure plate, and impeller (red) all rotate with the engine flywheel. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. I switched from a junk converter slipping that much to a tight well built version and picked up .3 and 4mph behind a healthy smallblock (10.2's at 127mph) For additional technical information about the cookies used by the analytics service, see their "Google Analytics Cookie Usage on Websites" page; for your reference when reviewing that page, we did not use Google Analytics 4. Impeller Pump The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. Studebaker-Packard (the two companies merged in 1954) dropped both of these transmissions after the 1956 model year. I havent studied the Wilson preselectors in any great detail, but if youre curious, the applicable U.S. patents are US1404675 and US1796904. Adding stall speed to the torque converter increases the power available to accelerate the car more quickly. Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. what is the protocol using AE to diagnosis torque slip. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. If governor pressure dropped below that threshold, the clutch would disengage.